Welcome to the Cake Decorators Q&A

Hi

I am going to make a church cake and would like some help please with how to make a triangle feature that would sit atop two supporting columns. It’s a type of porch entrance that protrudes out from the main part of the building if you see what I mean. Also any ides on how to make Fleur-de-lis would be great too.

Many thanks xx

Hi bellscakes

We have an elaborate church cake tutorial on the site. You can see it here:

Church Cake

If you scroll down under the video and click on the tools bar you can download all the templates to help you make each part of the church. The Fleur-de-lis is easy to make. Just download a picture from google images and either pipe around it with chocolate or royal icing or use it to cut around gumpaste or surgarpaste. Make a cardboard template out of the image to use again and again. Cover it up first though to make it food safe. Alternatively you could buy a mould. Take a peek here:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fluer+de+lis+mould&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=v0XyWPOpIPPv8Afx9qboDw

Hope this helps. Come back if you need more info.

Hi Madeitwithlove

Thanks very much for you help here. I have watched Paul’s brilliant church cake video and it has given me some really good tips. However the cake I am making is a bit unusual as it’s not a conventional shaped structure, it’s going to be a long Nissan shaped structure which once finished will be iced as usual with sugar paste. I am planning to make a half inch church frontage from Rice Krispie treat mixture which after cutting to shape will be iced with sugar paste; and once finished it will be stuck to the front flat part of the cake. However I’m not sure if this would work, never having done this type of thing before. Also the thickness of the church front structure needs to be half an inch thick. Firstly can you tell me if using the Rice Krispie treat mix cuts easily and is suitable for icing with sugar paste? and secondly would I need to prepare the Rice Krispie model with something prior to covering it with sugar paste? Your help would be greatly appreciated thanks. xx

Your church sounds delightful! I’ve had a look at the Italian church in Orkney which is built out of two nissan huts stuck together. Google nissen hut church and see how the structure is made to give you some guidance.
Rice krispie treats can definitely be used to make the front of the church. It’s an easy medium to work with and to carve so you have no worries there. Work the fresh krispie treats to make the mixture nice and compact before flatten it out. If it’s not compact it has a habit of crumbling apart. To make it nice and smooth, cover it first with marzipan and let the paste dry for a couple of days before covering with icing. Stick the flat front onto the curved part of the nissen with either royal icing or with melted candy melts. Please let me know if this helpsor if you need more information. xx

EDIT

Just had another thought. You could make the front with ginger bread dough and still cover it with icing. It could also be make pastillage or even cardboard. A few extra thing to think about! 🙂

Hi again Madeitwithlove

That’s exactly the church I’m trying to replicate. I guess the Nissan hut was the clue! I’d thought of doing a gingerbread front but wasn’t too sure what would work best. It’s food for thought though. I haven’t made pastillage before, can you tell me how I’d go about doing that please? I am aiming to make the church front as 3D as possible. But If I do make the church from Krispie treat mix for instance how long will it keep once it’s marzipaned and covered with sugar paste please?

Thanks.
xx

There are lots of pastillage recipes online if you would like to make your own. However, I think the best way is buy ready made pastillage powder if you’ve not made it before. Take a peek at the Squire’s Kitchen mix here:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Squires+Kitchen+pastillage+powder&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=yez0WNeOOKHHXpaFg4gO
It’s got all the ingredients in it already, all you have to do is add water and make the paste. It needs to be worked with quickly as it dries quicker than gumpaste. Pastillage dries much harder and can be filed with an emery board to take off any rough edges. Read the product information on their site to see how to use it. Cut rolled out pasitllage with an up and down movement with the knife, not in a sawing action. Keep the pieces flat until dry. It doesn’t like being moved once cut out. I think there are some tutorials on youtube which would be a guide. Just search how to use pastillage.
If you make it with krispie treats, it will keep for several weeks. I made a giant dinosaure from it which the client kept for several weeks then ate it!

Thanks very much that’s good to know for a future project but as time is against me just now I have decided to go with the Krispie treat recipe. So once the model is covered in marzipan do I need to dampen the marzipan prior to applying the sugar paste please? And of course I am assuming I need to put sugar paste both on the front and the back of the church shape. It’s great to know that the iced model has quite a long shelf life though as I need to have the cake ready for Thursday afternoon of this week, as it will be delivered the following Monday 24th April. I am assuming/hoping the cake itself will still be fresh enough as I will have made it on the Wednesday and decorated it on the Thursday. Also is it best to make the Krispie treat mix with or without butter. I see some folk use butter and others just use the melted mini marshmallows added to the Rice Krispies. Also should I crush the Rice Krispies before I add the melted ingredient/ingredients? Lots of questions, sorry, I just need to get it right.

xx

Brush a a little clear, boiled apricot jam on the krispie model to help the marzipan to adhere. Yes you will need to cover both side with marzipan and icing. Don’t forget to let the marzipan dry first before icing. To stick the icing, brush the dry marzipan with a little cooled boiled water or a little vodka.
How fresh your cake will be depends on the recipe. As long as you use a recipe which is sturdy, your time line is fine. Personally I would use a recipe with butter for the krispie treats. It keeps the marshmallow pliable for shaping your project. It will set fine. If you can manage to crush the cereal a little, it will help when you begin to compact it for shaping. It does need to be tightly squeezed to expel pockets of air which could cause the marshmallow to slacken away. as it dries. Don’t worry about all the questions, that’s what Q & A is for :). I would recommend that you get on with forming your krispie church front so it sets hard, ready for marzipan and icing. Sorry for replying so late. We’re clearing up after having the house redecorated, so much to do.

Hi again Madeitwithlove

Thanks very much indeed again for all your help and especially for taking the trouble to respond at such a busy time. I hope everything went well last night.

I made the Krispie treat last night with the butter and will marzipan it today on both sides. Likely a stupid question, but how can ensure it dries evenly on both sides given it’s a half inch depth and can’t stand independently until it’s stuck to the Nissan shaped finished cake. I guess I could put it on some parchment paper on a cooling try, likewise when it’s iced with the sugar paste, and just turn every so often to dry. Would that be the best way to do it do you think?
So far as the actual cake is concerned my plan is to make two 13x9inch tray bake sheet madeira cakes, cut to correct size, and stack one on top of the other to achieve the height prior to carving into Nissan hut shape. Would you think this is the best way to go about this please? The cake needs a base lip, as per the photo, so would it be best to cut the base sheet cake bit wider all round, except for the front where Krispie model will be then place carved top cake on top base layer; this would then allow me to crumb coat and ice with sugar paste all in one go. Alternatively should I just butt the required width and length of cake with cake trimmings up against the cake back and sides to achieve the extended base? Finally, would I need to dowel this cake given it will be approximately 4-4/12 inches deep x 7 inches wide and around 9inches long.

Many thanks in advance. xx

Dry one side overnight and then do the otherside ….. or you could put a skewer on each side of the krispie object and leaving enough skewer to suspend over a couple of cups. The holes from the skewers can be filled in with a tiny ball of fondant. It won’t notice once you put all the elements together. Your idea of stacking and carving is great. I guess it could have been done with round cakes cut in half (semi circular) cut, filled and stuck together caterpillar style. It might reduce the amount of carving to shape the structure. I’d stick with what you’re doing. Card and dowel the layers to keep them secure. If you make one more layer of cake and cut into equal sizes it should be tall and wide enough to make the lip. If you can get away with using the trimmings to make the base, all the better! Take a peek at the base in this picture: http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/eastmainland/italianchapel/

Gosh, I do hope this makes sense! 🙂 We’re still clearing up ….. soooo many books!!

Hi again Madeitwithlove

Thanks very much again for all your help. I put the marzipan on the model this morning and it’s drying out ok. I have just turned it over to dry the other side. I was a bit apprehensive about skewer method though it’s a good idea. I made the two madeira sheet cakes and they appear to have turned out very well but aren’t high enough so I took your suggestion of making round cakes which will as you say save a lot of time carving as I’d previously planned to do. I will have quite a bit of cake left so I will freeze it for another time.
I still have quite a lot to do such as making the church cross and the free standing cross outside the building etc. If you have any advice here I’d be glad of it thanks very much.

xx

How big are these crosses?
An easy and quick way to make the crosses is to pipe them out to the thickness you want with candy melts. ……. Download the cross image and stick it down on a work board with a little ganache or melted chocolate. Secure parchment paper over the image. Using a parchment piping bag with tip cut off, trace around and fill the image with melted candy melts. Allow the chocolate to set up then further pipe to make it stronger or embellish with swirls. Once done, let the chocolate set hard either in the fridge or in a cool place. Another way ………. hand mould the crosses in gumpaste and allow to dry on a smooth and flat bed of corn flour. The starch draws the moisture out of the paste and assists quicker drying. If you’ve got flower paste that would dry faster than gumpaste but either works. Please let me know if this makes sense xx

HI again Madeitwithlove

Thanks very much that’s all really helpful. I am firstly going to attempt to make the cross that goes into the very top of the spire, with some thin wire as there’s a lot of arms to the cross. Then I’d like to make the free-standing cross outside the church. It would need to be firm to stay up, what would be the best way of doing this please? Also as my base sheet cake is only around one and a half to 2 inches deep so would I still need to dowel it? The Nissan hut with church frontage will potentially be sitting on the base cake so wasn’t sure, xx

The nissan hut church will be sitting on it’s own card? I would dowel the base cake before sitting the church on it. If you don’t dowel, the church will sink down into the base. What gauge wire are you using for the cross on the spire. If it’s quite heavy, 18 gauge would be strong to hold it up. Not quite with you on this as you say you’re using thin wire ….. is the cross fairly small? The free standing cross, if a simple one, can be cut out free hand or use a cardboard template to cut around. How thick does it have to be? Again you’ll need to think about the drying time. Personally, I would pipe it out of chocolate candy melts. It sounds like you’ve already achieved quite a lot.
How is the cake doing and what is happening about the Fleur- de- lis?

HI again Madeitwithlove

Thanks very much again. I have had to improvise as time has gone on. I levelled the two sheet cakes and cut to size, then cut the 3x6inch sandwich cakes in half and stacked them caterpillar style on top of the two sheet cakes ( which were only around an inch deep in the end). Once I was happy with everything I sandwiched the sheet cakes together, sandwiched the caterpillar like cakes together, all in a row on top of the sheet cakes and then crumb coated it all together then iced the whole thing in one go. I even managed to keep the shape of the ledges toward the bottom of the Nissan hut. So far so good. I iced the chapel with sugar paste this evening and tomorrow once I have completed the decoration of the chapel I am going to stick the chapel onto the front of the Nissan hut with royal icing. The base of the chapel will be at the same level as the base of the Nissan hut if you see what I mean. The Fleur-de-lis has been made by sticking three circles together one on top and one either side and they pass very well for the Fleur-de-lis. The cake won’t be delivered now until Sunday, for Monday, so I will have a little more time to start the cross which will be for the top of the building, hence pliable wire to bend and shape, and then time permitting I will try to make the free standing cross for the outside of the church. Phew! What a marathon but I am very pleased with the cake so far. I ran into a problem earlier today as I was unable to get the correct size of cake card so had to make do with what I had so was unable to dowel the base cake but I reckon it will hopefully be ok as the chapel won’t be sitting on it. Fingers crossed! I will also need to try and do some grass on the base board as I meant to spray it green but it’s likely too late now as the board was iced last night. Thanks again for all your help. xx

I’m out of breath reading your post! 🙂 You’ve worked incredibly hard and very quickly too. I hope everything goes well. xx

Hi Madeitwithlove

Yes I’ll bet and I feel as though I have run a marathon! I am really quite pleased with the end result though and am happy to tidy away all the cake making tools for now. I just hope the cake is still in one piece when it is delivered on Monday.

Many thanks again for all your help and have a good weekend. xx

Very well done bellscakes. Relax now and take a breath. Hubby and I are in London ready to go to the cake show at Alexandra Palace. I can only do a little at a time so it will be stop and start all week end. Not going to be buying much, I just want to catch up on all the new products and hopefully see a few new cake techniques too. xx

Hi madeitwithlove

Thanks very much yes now that the pressure is off I can relax. The cake was delivered yesterday with no mishaps thankfully, and the recipient was seemingly very pleased, so thanks again for all your help. I hope you enjoyed the cake show at the weekend and were able to get round everything even if you did have to pace yourself. I did see some cake photos online and as ever the standard was amazing. I have only been to one cake show which was in Birmingham three years ago. It was a fantastic experience with so many fabulous exhibits and stalls but so oh so busy and exhausting, especially as I was only there for one day.

xx

Thank you so much for the update bellescakes. You deserve the rest now and I’m sure your customer will give even more positive feed back after the celebrations. You amaze me at how you try your hand at all these different cakes. I love the way you just work along steadily and get the job done!

I had a really lovely time at the cake show thank you. It was slow going but plenty of space to sit down and get off my feet. I’m glad we went because there was so much to catch up on. I missed last year and since then new products have come out and new techniques are being taught. I need to keep up with all these things even though I rarely do big cakes now.

David and Paul are so lovely, they make sure I’m comfortable. I think they were surprised that I actually kept going all day long. I’m shattered now but in a nice way. My poor hubby has the task of making sure I don’t over do things and he’s also incharge of all my medication …. a big responsibility for him.
I really hope you’ll be able to make another show and perhaps stay overnight so you don’t become so exhausted. xx