Welcome to the Cake Decorators Q&A

I have said I would do a wedding cake, but now having kittens two weeks before the wedding!! I have already made the two top tiers, but am now about to do the bottom tier which is a 10 inch cake.

My first question is can I use cake dowels with the separators? Before I buy the separators I wondered if they are holes in the separators to push the dowels through?

All three tiers are rich fruit cakes, but my daughter only wants the tops of each tier iced/marzipan, she doesn’t want the regal icing taken down the sides. Can anyone offer me some advice before I have a breakdown….many thanks in advance.

My second question is how reliable are silicone baking pans? I have one in the 10 inch size but the other two tiers were made using heavy quality baking tins…….sorry for all the questions.

Hi, many thanks for your reply, once again it is very much appreciated. The bottom 10 inch cake was in the oven for much longer than I had thought…….the guideline for the size was 5 – 6 hours, but I took it out after just under 7 hours!! The shape was good, no distortion, but I reckon if I hadn’t sat the silicone pan inside another metal tin it would have been a problem. I didn’t used the metal tin as it was only around 2 inches deep, so the finished cake is 3.5 inches deep.
I have got separators ordered as well as the 3mm cake card, so will decide which method to go with when they arrived. I read the comments about the separators, but didn’t realise that I should have order them small the diameters of the two top tiers…..so many options for us beginners.

Many thanks again for all your help. I was watching the “free” video relating to separators and dowels, but it stopped after 30 seconds as the time had come to an end. I will either never attempt this again, or I will be back “all guns ablazing” and want to enrol for the tutorials! I will have accumulated quite a stash of cake kit after this venture…..will keep you posted with photos if they look good enough.

Hello homelovingirl31

First of stop having kittens please and relax! 🙂 You’re fine, there’s nothing to worry about. Lets address the silicone baking pans first. If you’re thinking of making the bottom fruit tier using one please don’t because they really are not suitable for heavy rich fruit cakes. and are not intended for this type of bake. They were all the rage not so long back but not a patch on a good heavy duty metal cake tin.

Usually heavy rich fruit cakes are pretty hefty and can support themselves without any dowels or separators. However, it is always wise to err on the side of caution for wedding cakes and dowel each tier. All you have to do is use a 3mm cake card under each upper tier and follow the exact dowelling system which Paul uses in all the tutorials. If you prefer, cake drums can be used in place of cake cards and dressed with a pretty wedding ribbon for a more aesthetic look. You haven’t mentioned which type of separators you have. If there are holes in the tops, these would be for pushing the dowels through. If there are no holes, they will be intended for use as ordinary cake boards which sit on top of the suken dowels.
For dowelling and stacking tutorials please have a look at all the lessons here:

Stacking Cakes – Overview

Since your daughter only wants the tops of each tier marzipaned and iced the middles would look a little bare. An attractive way to present each tier would be to tie a wide wedding ribbon around the middle of each cake or perhaps have several thin layered ribbons. It’s just an idea.

Hope some of the above helps. Please post again if you need more help or information. You are not on your own.!

Thank you so much for your quick response. I have been unable to find a heavy metal cake tin for the bottom tier (10 inch), as I am “out in the sticks” I am wondering if it would be safe to place the 10 inch silicone pan within another 10 inch metal pan to support it? The metal pan in question is only over 2 inches deep but I am hoping this will be enough support with silicone inside the metal one, what do you think? The silicone pan is a neat fit inside the metal one, however, the metal one is about 1.5 inches shallower than the silicone pan.

I have had a look at the link for how to inserts dowels that you sent, but it stops after 30 seconds so doesn’t show how you put the dowels into the cake. I really appreciate your advice with this, I don’t really have much option now at this stage as I cannot find a stockist for the 10 inch metal tin…….many thanks again, your advice is much appreciated.

Is the man in the video any connection to the Bradford’s bakery that I knew near Clarkston? Just wondered….

I really wouldn’t recommend using the silicone pan but if you have no other options than I guess placing it inside the othe pan for support would be the way to go in this instance. Unfortunately silicone bakeware distorts during the long period of baking which is required for rich fruit cake. As a result the sides will cook far quicker than the inside of the cake. Lining the metal pan on the outside and underneath with several layers of brown paper might help protect the cake but I can’t really say how long it would take to bake this size cake. I can only recommend that you bake it on a low heat until done.
Is it not possible for you to order a pan online or perhaps, if you have a local cake decorating shop, hire it? Most of the online suppliers will be able to give next day delivery which would still leave you time for baking.
Professional brand like Invicta is one of the very best and reasonalby priced online and on Amazon.

I’m not sure why the video doesn’t work for you. Perhaps try watching it in SD instead of HD. Right click on the video as it plays and select SD or a lower resolution. It’s possible you have a slow internet connection. If you can’t watch that video, take a look at any of the tutorials which show tiered cakes.

Paul Bradford is the co owner with David Brice of this site, designer-cakes.com. As far as I know Paul has worked in and around the Linlithgow area. I don’t think the other bakery is associated with him in any way.

Please let me know if you are now able to view the dowelling video.

Hi there, thanks very much again for getting back to me, I really do appreciate your help.
I felt that if I didn’t get the cake done tonight I would get into a complete panic timewise….it is currently baking in the oven at 120 degrees (fan oven). I have the silicone pan supported by another same size metal tin, this I didn’t feel was deep enough for the cake, but it appears to be supporting it well. I have double-wrapped the outside with brown paper and double-lined the inside and base of the silicone pan with parchment paper…..fingers crossed this will do the trick. I would like to post a photo to let you seen the result, if this would be possible.
I did look online and saw the tin you suggested, but I was concerned about the timescale as I need to have the completed ready to take away by 16th.
I will try the video again and let you know how I get on.

Just one other question and it’s regarding testing to make sure the cake is done. I usually pierce the centre with tooth picks to check that they come out clean, but the first two tiers I felt were a bit hard on top, once they had thoroughly cooled down.
I don’t want to overcook this last cake, as it’s the bottom tier and will be first to be cut. So if you can offer any further advice to check that it’s cooked through, I would be very grateful.
Many thanks again in advance.

To check for doneness use a wooden skewer. The cake is done if the skewer comes out of the cake with a few sticky crumbs. I sometimes take a small plug out from the middle of the cake with an apple corer, check the sample for doneness and replace it. Take the sample from the top side of the cake as this is the side which will be face down before decorating. Fruit cakes do feel hard once they cool down, this is not necessarily an indication of being overbaked. Normally rich fruit cakes are baked well in advance and leftto mature for two or three months. This maturing breaks the fruit down and enhance the flavour and texture of the cake. However this is not to say that a less matured cake will not be as good one. Fruit cake is much discussed on the site, to see the discussions have a peek here: http://www.cakeflix.com/questions?s=fruit+cake

I’m sorry you’re having problems with the dowelling video. If you are subscribed to the site as a paying member you have the choice of viewing other tutorials which will include dowelling.
I’m sure if you send a picture to the site via email and say it’s for me it will get forwarded.
I hope it all goes well. Just post again if you need any more information.

You did very well to get over your hurdles. It may have baked quicker had it been in the heavy duty metal pan but it’s done now so you should congratulate yourself.
I think it would be great if you join up as a premium subscribing member, you’ll enjoy learning from the tutorials so much. There is much to be gained not just from Paul but also from all the lovely guest tutors too. Hope someone treats you to the subscription, you deserve it!

…. I’ve just realised why you’re not seeing the tutorial. I think you’re just seeing the overview. If you look beneath the video you’ll see backward and forward arrows which move the lessons along when you click on the arrow. There is also an arrow alongside the video click on that too and you’ll see the lessons changing.

Thanks for your message, I’ve now managed to watch the rest of the tutorials and they were a great help.
I need to take the three tiers 150 miles up to Glasgow by 15th, the wedding is on the 19th. So it will be a challenge to transport them up without doing them any damage.
I have been feeding the three tiers with brandy in the hope that the guests will not notice the taste of the cake!!
I appreciate all the advice given and just wanted to ask how far ahead I can marzipan and put the fondant icing on?
My daughter only wants the tops iced, so your idea of ribbon around each tier is ideal. I am concerned about the cakes drying out, although they’re all foil wrapped and cling filmed just now, I just need to pluck up courage to slice the tops off them and get on with icing them.
Is it alright to use buttercream icing to “glue” each card/cake layer? I am a bit worried about the butter going off in the warmth before the wedding.

Thanks again for all the help, Maggie

Just watched the video for the pink roses, brilliant! You make it look so easy!
Love the beautiful countryside out your kitchen window, this reminds me of the Clyde Valley area…..with regards to the Linlithgow connection, my son and his wife were married in Linlithgow Palace.

Hi Maggie

As the wedding is so close the cakes can be marzipaned and iced as soon as you like providing as the tops are not wet from the feeding brandy. If you go ahead and dowel the cakes, they could be transported individually in their own cake boxes placed on non slip rubber mats in the boot of the car. Once the cakes are dowelled, stacking is very quick and easy. It’s fine to use butter cream to stick down the cake cards or use a little melted chocolate or chocolate ganache.
Ask the venue if they will allow you to set up the night before. Not all will but still worth asking. Did you manage to see all the information in this link:
http://www.cakeflix.com/questions?s=fruit+cake
There’s some very useful stuff there. To see all the questions and answers just click on the threads most relevant to you.
As long as the cakes are covered they shouldn’t dry out. However avoid the foil coming into contact with the cakes. Sometimes foil reacts with the fruit. Instead wrap the middles with parchment paper and then cling film and store in their respectful boxes.
Don’t worry about cutting the tops. Just take off the domes and turn the cakes upside down and decorate the smooth bottom side. If you don’t feel confident slicing the tops, use some cocktail sticks around the cutting area as a guide. Mark off the area with the back of a knife so you can see where to cut. Use a bread knife to slice off the amount you want. Do this slowly, rotate the cake as you cut so the knife slices bit by bit. Don’t try and force the knife through because you’ll take chunks out of the cake. It’s not difficult, just take your time.

Paul does making decorating look easy, he’s a brilliant tutor. If you keep watching the tutorials and all his techniques, you’ll soon gain confidence in all aspects of cake decorating. The tutorial which you have recently viewed was filmed when the school was based in Kenmore. It is no longer located there. The scenery at Kenmore was indeed a beautiful backdrop for the filming.
How lovely that your son and his wife had such a memorable venue at Linlithgow palace!

Hi, many thanks again for all your help and advice, it’s very much appreciated. I would have been a nervous wreck without your replies…… I’ve also had a look at the links you suggested, great help!
You will be so glad when I’ve got this finished and won’t be asking questions, but I will get some photos and show you the outcome. I have a roll of that rubberised non-slip webbing stuff, so I can sit each carded cake on a square of that.
Honestly, these will be my last couple of questions!! I won’t need to level off the tops, as I’ve managed to get them all pretty level, so should I now stop feeding the tops of the cakes? I really need to have them all iced and dowelled by Monday next.
As I am going to turn each cake over, the bottoms won’t have had any feeding, but as I kept the cake covered with the parchment, I’m hoping they will be moist enough. So, final question now, if I am going to marzipan and ice the bottoms and not the tops, should I just marzipan the tops then allow a couple of days to dry out before putting the regal icing on. (I’m using the Dr. Oetker’s) ready-to-roll one.
I think my main concern is a dry, hard cake. But they all smell divine!
Once again, many thanks in advance, Maggie

Hi Maggie

Yes, stop feeding them now if you want to have them done by Monday next, that’s the 15th??
Don’t worry that the feed wasn’t done at the bottom. The alcohol would have crept down by means of gravity so there will be sufficient feed down there. The fruit will also have started to breakdown and they’ll be fine to turn over and marzipan as soon as you want. Leave for a couple of days for the marzipan to form a seal before icing. Keep the middle of the cake covered in parchment as you have been doing already. You’re almost done!

Don’t worry about asking too many questions, that’s what Q & A is for. I’m just happy that you have felt supported during this very important project.

Hi, I am now at the final part of the cake, but I can’t find the link to the video for how to put the dowels into each tier. Also, the best way to snip each dowel, perhaps I’m just missing the video somehow.

All three tiers and marzipanned and iced, but what is the best way to mark the point at which each dowel should be cut. I had ordered a food-safe pen, but it hasn’t turned up. I will be transporting the cakes on Wednesday am.

Many thanks again in advance, Maggie

Hi Maggie

Make sure you are logged in when viewing, this may be why you can’t see the video.
Here is the link for dowelling and stacking:

Stacking Cakes – Overview

It’s best to watch it from the start (overview) because Paul explains all the things he will be covering in the lessons. From there proceed to the lessons which show how and where to insert the dowels, where to mark them and how to cut them. You will see that Paul uses a pair of heavy duty wire cutters which can be bought in any DIY shop. If your marking pens don’t turn up in time, use a pencil firmly on the dowel to mark it. In the past I’ve used edible gel colour on the tip of a fine paint brush. You will need to be careful not to smudge the gel as you take the dowel out. Please let me know if you can view the tutorial ok. You’re almost done! 🙂

Hi, I wanted to ask what other way I can mark the dowels as I have been let down by an online seller and the food pen hasn’t arrived.
I have non-toxic ceramic paints, would it be possible to use a tiny bit to mark each dowel?
I only bought one pack of 10 x 12 inch dowels, so hopefully there will be enough when cutting each twice, also, (last question) as we will be transporting the cakes tomorrow……I was only going to dowel the bottom and middle tier (fruit cakes) and just sit the top 6 inch on top of the middle tier, do you think this will be safe enough?

Many thanks again for all the advice, Maggie

Hi Maggie

Sorry you must have missed my answer above your latest question Here it is again:

“If your marking pens don’t turn up in time, use a pencil firmly on the dowel to mark it. In the past I’ve used edible gel colour on the tip of a fine paint brush. You will need to be careful not to smudge the gel as you take the dowel out.”
It’s best not to use the non-toxic ceramic paints.

If you use five dowels in the bottom and five in the middle tier you will have enough to support all the tiers. Place one dowel in the centre and the others north, south, east, west. That’s plenty for fruit cakes as they are sturdy enough to hold without support.

Hi there, thanks for coming back so quickly. Apologies, but I realised after I had posted the question about marking the dowels that I had overlooked it. Thanks for the advice not to use the ceramic paint despite them being non-toxic, I used a fine pencil in the end. Both bottom and middle tiers now dowelled, I am now deciding whether to put them together before setting off or whether to do it at the other end.

Once again thanks for all the help, after the wedding, I would like to enrol for a birthday cake tutorial for later on this year. I will let you know after the wedding whether I would be brave enough to do another wedding cake again, but I have certainly picked up a lot of knowledge on here.

Many thanks again, Maggie

Hi Maggie

It will be easier to transport the cakes unstacked for such a long journey. It’s very easy to stack them once you’re at the other end and less stress too. Do yourself a big favour and relax a bit!
Treat yourself to an annual subscription or even the no contract monthly subscription. I can promise you it will be worth every penny. You’ll learn soooo much more!!
Read the information on how the membership works here: http://www.cakeflix.com/how-it-works
and then click on membership options to see how you could be enrolled and learning right now for such a small fee.

Good luck with the drive up to Glasgow, hope all goes well at the wedding.